I couldn't sleep tonight. It's 12:30 a.m. and not a wink in sight. I tried but my sheep must've been off for the holiday. I kept dwelling on a comment anonymous left. Anonymouse - just so you know, you also made it to my friend Phil's blog at www.phillaeger.com. However, I think we've talked enough about the brand. I've come to realize that it can't do much. What I have realized is that I can and I've reposted anonymous' comment here because he or she's comment is the point - isn't it? I've shortened it because there were two questions in the comment but I want to focus on the first and here it is:
"I guess a much bigger question I would be asking doesn't have to do with the branding (although I think it's an aweful slogan) and that is, "Why is it the only people describing the Salvation Army as a soul winning community are the individuals within the movement and only in coversations with each other. The coversation never goes outside into the market place so to speak. The Army does a great job using a religious language when it is talking to itself and never when it engages the world. That to me should be the bigger question."
So, really my post is a question to the wide world if anyone is willing to respond: how do we engage the culture in conversation - a conversation that matters? What does it sound like? What does it look like? I don't think I'm talking about one of those hey I just met someone on a plane and they asked me what I do or where I go to church questions. That's perhaps an easy question but not really one that engages. I'm talking about what does the conversation look like in lifestyle, in habit? Perhaps that's where we should start. I don't think the branding will change many things but I know I can. I'm a foot soldier after all and that's where all wars are won - on the front lines.
I'm just wondering if we can begin a conversation here - where it counts.
Thanks,
Joy
8 comments:
A "Brand" New Conversation
I thought your comment about the foot soldier was well placed. Profound insight into how the Kingdom of God grows. It is truly a grassroots movement.
When I posed that question on your site a week or so ago, I had a few ideas as to how the conversation needed to shift, but I admit I don't pretend to have all the answers on this, just a few ideas/observations.
I think a good starting point is illustrated well in the 1999 movie Big Kahuna (If you don't remember the movie you could find it on netflix) The language is admittedly bad but the message is powerful.
I have a few more ideas on the question you put forth, but I wouldn't want to bore your readers or monopolize your blog.
I prefer to read what others suggest.
I wonder if the SA isn't penalized because of people like this?
http://spaces.msn.com/members/yosicb/Blog/cns!1psmukY3wE_5Akx1KltJuPyQ!321.entry
I hope the general public doesn't link the SA with these guys!!!!
How did you find these two winners? Someone should forward that link to the PA dhq. But then again, some of the bell ringers are no different from the guys payed to hold signs up at the intersections for the newly built sub-divisions in my town. Amazing what 5.00 an hour will get you.
Don't get me wrong isn't that what you guys are talking about? If the Salvation Army is going to emphasize the public relations aspect, "Kettle Appeal" then at least put some folks that can endorse your message on the bell.
Here is an interesting article that may relate:
http://seekerofthelight.blogspot.com/2005/11/passion-for.html
So, I wasn't really hoping to start a conversation about bellringers although I know that perhaps we should use a better screening process. My brother did call me yesterday to let me know there was a male bellringer at a store on Chamblee Tucker who was humping the air as females passed. As I thought about that and the comments made here though I wondered what the answer was. "Seasonal" workers are hard to come by. Perhaps the answer lay in our DNA - we were originally the volunteer Army and now it's like pulling teeth to make that happen. It's the same in every church I believe. 20% of the congregation does 80% of the work. We even put volunteers on kettles and our soldiers do volunteer. I'm not sure there's a blanket answer here. Just a responsibility to make sure we are accountable for the information we've been given.
I was hoping for more responses to this blog. It seems like so many have great answers when we're talking about something negative concerning The Salvation Army and when we could potentially begin a dialogue that could offer suggestions to those searching or hope to those struggling we're mute. I was just hoping we could spur each other on. I wasn't looking for a day to day plan or anything huge - just perhaps what you're doing where you are to make a difference. It all counts. It's all important.
How 'bout it?
"quid pro quo Clarice" lol
The first point to be made is that there is inherent to this "conversation shift" is the realization that running a fortune five hundred company and evangelizing with the hopes of building the Kingdom of God probably involves two sets of rules. We have already discussed the nature of running a fortune five hundred company in previous threads or as you put it, "when we are talking about something negative in the Amry." I don't fault Army leaders for playing the "Branding" game because they have to in order to compete in the market place, at least in the United States. Those are the rules of the game.
The second point of distinction is a bit more complex. People who EXIST in an organization that has to play by the aforementioned rules, but, yet, enlisting principles that transcend the cultural game. This is where the converational shift should be exaggerated. It is fleshed out in the following way:
Taking the conversation out is a start!
"Out" in terms of outside the denominational/organizational context. Evangelizing postmoderns means to lose the jargon that reeks of presuppositions and instiutional rhetoric. Sharing the gospel and recruiting to an organziation/"church" may be two very different things.
There is a great scene in the movie Big Kahuna where Danny Devito is admonishing a young salesman who happens to be a christian. In essence he tells him that all he amounts to is a "door to door vacuum salesman pushing a product." Christianity has been reduced to a product that people push in order to win the nice set of steak knives. The point in the movie and the point here is that the programs/methods of evangelism taken by folks in the Army may very well send the message we are pushing a product or brand simply to win the nice set of steak knives in the end.
The same passion and commitment demonstrated at Army functions where only other Army people attend is a great exercise of reaffirmation. Your community serves to reaffirm your faith statements etc...But what happens when you all leave your counsels and stuff. All of a sudden the conversation goes back to selling a product or brand. It is now about Christmas appeal and organizational recruitment. The general public often times doesn't get to engage Army people on the same levels that Army people engage each other.
This is really a philosophy chanage. When you seek to bring somebody along in Christ you are bringing them along the spiritual journy that may not invovlve the Army or her programs and hangups. You may be bringing them along with the complete awareness that they will not only forsake your organizational heritage but may even chose a completely different heritage all together.
Our converations to those outside the Army must be allowed to venture off into many different directions. Our vested interested is in their meeting Christ and having a Christ centered experience that may manifest itself in traditional church stuff or it may look very radical and that has got to be ok.
"Quid pro quo Clarice" I have given you some ideas on how to bring about this conversational shift, what is it that you are doing to bring this about? Just curious.
Have a good day,
Regards
As a subscript the previous post: This is true for every church it just so happens we are using the Army as the point of conversation. Didn't want to come off sounding anti-SA. Just using them to illustrate a bigger point. the "conversational shift" must occur in nearly every ecclesiastical context. I am indicting my heritage just as much as that of the Army.
thanks,
I think what you said Anonymous is absolutely correct. We operate on different levels. The part about your comment that made my heart jump for joy is when you said, "Our vested interested is in their meeting Christ and having a Christ centered experience that may manifest itself in traditional church stuff or it may look very radical and that has got to be ok." We miss the meaning often but those were the types of experiences I was hoping to hear about here - Christ-centered experiences - whether traditional or radical.
For example, here in the Atlanta area a group of my friends go to an apartment complex every Tuesday afternoon and spend about an hour and a half to two hours simply playing with the children there. I don't know how much difference we're making but I do know that in many or most of their lives we may be the only Christians they see or know. There's one girl whose name is Norma whose mother has a few problems. She told us just a few weeks ago that she wishes we could come every day. Our progress there is slow. We do devotions with them sometimes but mostly we play and interact with them. It's not much but it's something. If you'd like to read more about it go to www.xanga.com/mission-buf
I admire your devotion in that apartment complex. Norma may not fully understand the "conversation" you are having with her (through your love,concern, and time) but rest assured as he gets older and connects with your consistent message of hope and love she will better be able to identify the Love Story of Jesus Christ.
The time spent with her and the other children are like mini viennettes leading up to the feature story. The moment she puts on Christ. In small ways you are putting into action your faith story so as to one day help bring about her own faith story.
In this context, "Conversation" becomes a metaphor for life swapping (not to be confused with wife swapping).
You are giving Norma glimpses of hope and an ability to see the "conversation" between you and your savior that is taking place on a daily basis.
Isn't interesting that at Pentecost when the Apostles experienced the power of the Holy Spirit it was manifested in a "conversation" to the crowd where each understood their own language? Without over allegorizing this passage it may be that the metaphor of "conversation" doesn't get enough mileage in our spiritual journeys.
"Converse with everyone you can and use words if you have to"
Regards,
c
fearntrembling.blogspot.com (unable to log onto blogger)
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